did somebody say "anti-Wayland horseshit"?

2021/02/23 3:56 PM (UTC -5) | tildearrow

in before you issue this aggressive response, we got reasons why are many people pushing this "anti-Wayland horseshit"!

What do anti-vaxxers, flat earthers, 9/11 truthers, and anti-Wayland activism all have in common?

why would anti-vaxxers and flat earthers have anything to do in common with anti-Wayland activists?
anti-vaxxers and flat earthers cannot accept facts, but people do not like Wayland for several valid reasons, including lack of support and the feeling of dictatorship by its working group.

the problem with Wayland is that its leaders cleverly designed it to favor GNOME; therefore anything that does not adhere to GNOME ideology is knocked out, hindering sane and cooperative development.

why else does it not support server-side decorations (SSD)?! I mean, the protocol extension barely got accepted, and both GNOME and Weston refuse to implement it for absolutely no valid reason other than selfishness and pretending KDE/MATE/Cinnamon do not exist!
applications like games and media players (mpv) are pejorated by this fact! and it's not like they have time to please an insignificant (when compared to Windows, macOS and X11 users) group of fanboys that marvel at every single new technology for no reason other than being new.

what about screen recording? most compositors seem to be going for PipeWire nowadays but I've heard reports of people complaining about performance issues...
I am not sure about this, but if I experience them on my next Wayland journey I will update the article...

it doesn't support data query (e.g. where is the cursor or what window is active) either. at least not at an implementation-agnostic level.
according to a user, AT-SPI2 is the way to go, but again, it's not fully compositor-agnostic as it is based around GNOME...
you might say "who cares" but the truth is if we want to tinker around and develop toys or even debug, we cannot!

so what is the response to these problems? "fuck you"? really?!
i rest you assured this will not get you more users, and i mean, normal people who just want to get their work done and let that be it.

sure, i may understand the response towards people who "don't have a clue" and "tried it out for 5 minutes and flamed it for being different", but towards the aware, it does not work.

why couldn't you have allowed data query through a permission system instead?! as opposed to simply forgo it and vanquish it?
X11 does have security problems (no permission system; every application is allowed to do anything without the user's consent) and an ancient architecture (yes, I am very aware of this), but now Wayland takes the "security problems" and fixes it by causing MORE problems!

Wayland works for almost everyone,

yeah, sure, if "almost everyone" consists of exclusively GNOME, Weston and Sway users.
what about us KDE users? are we excluded?
KDE has been slow at adopting Wayland, yeah, but this is in part because the leaders don't want to help (talk about SSD which I mentioned before) and because Qt turned into a mess!

so what? to use Wayland you must...

...otherwise "fuck you"? ugh.

Wayland is only beginning to reach feature parity with X11, but it's not too close yet....

bonus: debunking Tashkinov's Major Linux Problems on the Desktop! (Wayland section)

you may think I am a Wayland hater, but the truth is that some things true Wayland haters say are wrong:

Applications (or GUI toolkits) must implement their own font antialiasing - there's no API for setting system-wide font rendering. Most sane and advanced windowing systems work exactly this way - Windows, Android, Mac OS X. In Wayland all clients (read applications) are totally independent.

totally false. fontconfig has existed for years and it works as expected.

Applications (or GUI toolkits) must implement their own DPI scaling.

true to some degree, but please confirm that there is no API to check or set the scaling factor.

Wayland works through rasterization of pixels which brings about two very bad critical problems which will never be solved

stop with this already. it makes no sense.

Wayland doesn't allow XWayland applications to change display resolution which could make running games slower as the compositor needs to upscale each game frame. Also software upscaling might not be the best option.

agreed. when talking to a Wayland enthusiast he said VRR and software scaling is the future, and ended up being a long debate.
like what if i want to change the resolution for real? what if I want to use a CRT?

Screensharing doesn't yet work out of the box (likely to be fixed in 2020).

false; already possible with either FFmpeg kmsgrab, darmstadt or PipeWire. the former two don't capture the mouse cursor, though.

Wayland lacks APIs for global keyboard shortcuts.

true. no implementation-agnostic way of doing that yet.

Wayland doesn't allow applications to exclusively grab mouse/keyboard which is required for games and applications like VMs.

well, Minecraft works well on Wayland, so this is false.

Wayland lacks APIs for sending remote input which makes Wayland unsuitable for remote desktoping.

agreed, at least until data query is implemented in some way.

Applies to the X server/protocol as well: neither, nor Wayland offer a way to extend/modify window's title bars and File Open/Save dialogs. This is a very powerful feature which can be very useful in many situations. Again it's a result of the fact that there's no unified toolkit and no unified window manager (or protocol).

this has nothing to do with the protocol, so it is invalid.

Wayland compositors don't have a universal method of storing and configuring screen/session/keyboard/mouse settings.

invalid as well. happens on X too.

Wayland applications cannot run without a Wayland compositor and in case it crashes, all the running apps die. Under Windows there's no such issue.

agreed. affect KDE in particular which is one heck of a minefield!